“But wouldn’t it be nice to tell stories of women who are so abrasive and so uncomfortable but who change the rules?”. Interview with Chiara Tagliaferri, co-author of Morgana.

Hello! This is the newsletter of I MILLE. It’s called Forward because we try to look ahead from here (and also because if you like what we write, you can forward it to someone you like).

Like you, more than 1,800 people working in communication, marketing and digital read I MILLE Forward, and over 26,000 follow what we have to say on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Chiara Tagliaferri is a radio writer, author, and, together with Michela Murgia, the co-creator of Morgana, one of Italy’s most successful podcasts. She also conceived Le Diaboliques (about the Giussani sisters, the creators of Diabolik) and Sailor, dedicated to the fashion world. She wrote the novel Strega comanda colore for Mondadori. Writer Matteo B. Bianchi interviewed her at the I MILLE headquarters as part of the “I MILLE Welcomes” series.

How did the podcast “Morgana” come about?

It was born from a mistake, like so many good things in life. Michela Murgia had been a guest on a Radio Due Rai show where I worked as a writer. The host had treated her poorly because she didn’t share his views, but she liked the questions, and at the end of that unpleasant encounter, she asked who’d written them. We went out for coffee and discovered we both loved Game of Thrones. Not only that, but we both believed that in those novels (and in the TV show), even if men were the ones fighting, the women were the real protagonists, the ones who pulled all the strings.

At one point, Michela said to me: “But wouldn’t it be nice to tell stories of women who are so abrasive and so uncomfortable but who change the rules?”

And that was the very first seed of what would eventually become Morgana.

Perhaps few people know that at the start of the podcast, there were several rejections by Radio Rai…

We wrote a pilot episode, featuring Jane Fonda and Margaret Atwood, with Michela hosting, and pitched it to the Radio Due director. She first told us we needed to “tone it down” because Michela was too clever, and then added that a woman alone at the microphone wasn’t credible—she insisted on a male co-host. Michela then recorded one test episode, then two, then three, always alongside a man. They were talented, but never on par with Michela, who, despite never having done radio, was sharper and faster than people with decades of experience—simply because she knew exactly what she was saying. These men were effectively placed there to keep an eye on a woman our director found “dangerous” and “uncomfortable”. We didn’t want anything edifying, because we were tired of hearing about “exemplary” women.

We wanted stories of women full of cracks, full of fragments and breakages. At the same time, we wanted them to teach us about the courage to be free and about embracing diversity.

None of this would have found a home at Rai. So I contacted Rossana De Michele, who had just founded Storie Libere—Italy’s first platform dedicated to original podcasts—and we turned our radio idea into a podcast. It was 2018, and we were practically pioneers in the field here in Italy.

It was wonderful because it was all uncharted territory (though far from unchartable), and we had so much fun bringing all these stories in our heads to life.

Very quickly Morgana became a phenomenon. There was a strong sense of identification with the content you were offering, which obviously wasn’t easy to find elsewhere…

You have to think back to how the stories we grew up with were almost always “edifying”, with women confined to a single path of being wives and mothers—no room for deviation.

So, shining a spotlight on angry, abrasive women allowed listeners to explore parts of themselves more deeply.

We’ve covered almost 60 of these women over the years, and at the outset, Michela and I had no idea just how vast a world we were piecing together.

Telling these stories helped us make peace with the darkest parts of ourselves, because no human being is entirely made up of good feelings. Before we realized it, we understood that the hundreds, then thousands, then millions of people who listened shared this mindset.

The beautiful thing is that this community we built—initially mostly women—now ranges in age from 8 to 90.

The success of “Morgana” wasn’t limited to the podcast, as it also led to a book series. Did you expect this?

When the first book came out in 2019, we chose to launch it in Rome at the MAXXI, designed by one of our Morganas, Zaha Hadid.

I remember the exact moment I realized we’d created something huge: I arrived by car and couldn’t find parking. I called the Mondadori press office to apologize: “I’m sorry—there must be some other event going on. I can’t park”. The woman on the phone burst out laughing: “What other event? You are the event!”

When I finally reached the MAXXI and saw the barriers holding back more than a thousand people, I could hardly believe it. Usually, at a book presentation, fifty attendees is already a big deal. Seeing 1,200 felt like a rock concert.

You managed to create a phenomenon through your arguments and with a style of language that hadn’t been used before.

We gave a platform to all these women—from Moana Pozzi to Moira Orfei, and even Saint Catherine—women who might be centuries and worlds apart, yet who still speak volumes to one another. We shared their stories in a straightforward way, using language Michela referred to as “potable” [lit. “drinkable”, as in “speaking clearly”]. What we’ve always done, and what I still do, is tell other people’s stories, whether they’re women, men, or individuals in transition.

Morgana is a mindset, not a genre, and we like moving beyond conventional categories.

In the last season, there’s David Bowie, who at various points identified as gay, straight, or bisexual—basically, he was everything, because with his own body he helped us understand what it means to pursue desire.

And if I asked you to pick a quintessential figure, a representative image, what would that be?

I’d probably choose this particular scene, starring writer Margaret Atwood. It’s a very domestic image: she’s out in her yard one morning, sweeping leaves from her patio around Halloween. Her neighbor, a lawyer, comes out to leave for work, spots her using a straw broom, and starts laughing. He warns her to be careful—children in the neighborhood might be frightened, because with her white, curly hair, blue eyes, and an all-black caftan, they might mistake her for a witch.

Margaret Atwood looks at her neighbor, smiles, and tells him she’d be quite happy to be mistaken for a witch, because we still live in a world where fear inspires more respect than admiration.

And in that phrase—“Fear inspires more respect than admiration”—lies the essence of Margaret Atwood’s work and the uphill battle every woman still faces to be taken seriously.

We have to be scary if we don’t want to live in fear anymore. Perhaps that’s the spark Michela and I used to create Morgana.

Finding words that break barriers: 4 takeaways

1. The power of unconventional stories

Tagliaferri and Murgia succeeded by highlighting “abrasive” and “uncomfortable” women, steering away from the usual sugarcoated narratives. We must remember to explore new perspectives and give voice to what’s often left unsaid, because these are the stories that break the mold and resonate deeply with audiences.

2. The use of “drinkable” language

Though their topics were complex, they chose to communicate in an accessible way—“drinkable”, as Murgia called it. Adapting our language to the people we want to reach is vital. It makes even intricate concepts easier to grasp without dumbing anything down.

3. Creating a community around content

Morgana built a genuine community that spans different ages and backgrounds. This proves that authentic, sometimes uncomfortable content can best address people’s real needs, nurturing a sense of belonging that crosses both media platforms and generational lines.

4. The importance of going beyond traditional channels

When mainstream media slammed its doors, Tagliaferri and Murgia found a path through emerging platforms. Staying flexible, experimenting with new formats, and letting vision be your guide can open up opportunities that go well beyond established channels.